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Thread: 'lift pump' in the fuel tank???

  
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    gazvan_86's Avatar
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    'lift pump' in the fuel tank???

    rite the vans bin causing me trouble and im 1 step closer to finding out its the fuel pump
    its bin starting up fine then after 3secs it cuts out.
    ive tried a different edu from a friends van and mine worked on his so its not that.
    we both scanned the engine bay for loose,disconnected plugs/pipes and nothing.
    he give his diesel specalist friend a call and he mentions about a 'lift pump' in the fuel tank.
    does the 1998-2004 1.7dti's have these?
    we took the fuel filter apart and nothing/a little was coming thru
    im just praying its not the fuel pump
    thanks for any help
    streetbasser

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    paul.spencer's Avatar
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    Hi "gazvan",

    As far as I know there is no "lift pump" in the fuel tank. TIS 2000 doesn't show one. Fuel is drawn to the fuel pump by the action of the fuel pump and therefore it requires that it be a air-tight system.

    Any air leak into the filter or whtever and there can be start-up problems. That's the usual complaint - no start-up at all, or lots of cranking before eventual start-up. But you say that your engine has been starting up and then dying so suggest maybe something other than an air leak.

    However your statement that you took apart the fuel filter and there is "nothing" is odd - do you mean that when you opened it up there was no fuel there at all? If so, then that means that in fact there is an air leak after all. If you just mean to say that no fuel was observed coming through from the fuel tank when you cranked it over it would be because the fuel pump has no way to draw the fuel to the pump while you have the fuel filter assembly taken apart.

    Good to have tested the fuel pump EDU unit (also called EDC unit) on another vehicle. At least it rules that out.

    I guess there is no EML showing or you would have mentioned it. In any case, who knows maybe the indicator light has blown, it might be worth having diagnostics done, any codes read, old codes deleted.

    Cheers, Paul

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    cheers paul.

    there was a puddle of fuel in the filter its self, but when we ran it with the air filter apart nothing came thru but that wud make sence if theres no lift pump.

    when it cuts out there are no waring lights or anything.

    i tried the pedal test on it and no coeds came up so it is reallt starting to boggle me to wot it is. but in all fairness i think im faced with a fuel pump death but im heard from a few people now that the pumps shud out live the life of the engine/van its self.

    will c if i can find someone who can plug a tech 2 into it and c wot i find then.
    streetbasser

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    Excellent - you may be in luck - I mean it may not be the fuel pump at all

    If there was just a puddle of fuel in the fuel filter when you opened it up then it certainly sounds like there is an air leak.

    Now you just need to identify the source of the air leak.

    My fuel filter assembly is the old-fashioned type with solid banjo bolts and copper washers where the fuel lines connect. On your fuel filter housing I believe you have some sort of clips where the fuel lines connect. From posts I have read those sometimes don't connect perfectly, or could be damaged, and air can get in there. Another post told of finding a crack in the top cap. Yet another post said it turned out it was just that the filter seals were incorrectly installed...

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    I have similar cut out problems with my 04 1.7 cdti, no codes found just intermitent cut out and fail to start, I have good fuel pressure so my next step is to change the crank shaft sensor, these are known to cause cut out problems when they go faulty as they send a signal to the ecu, if the ecu does not get the signal it will stop the engine until it has discharged/reset.

    your sensor may be positioned below the starter motor, and should be one bolt holding it in place and an electrical lead to plug in.

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    cheers bud. wil have a double check. does this sensor tell the rev counter wot to do tho?
    streetbasser

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    If the crank sensor has become intermittant it will usually cause problems when it is hot, it's is just a coil wrapped around a magnet and when the magnet is excited by the crank it will generate a 1 volt AC signal to the ECU, if the crank sensor signal is lost the referene position of the crank will not be visable causing the engine stop fueling and cut out. If no signal/voltage is seen on cranking the vehicle will not start. When the crank sensor has become intermittant it may not give a proper signal again until it has cooled down. They are around £25-30 to replace.

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    Hi All,

    Can anyone help :-

    Engine ECU pt no 24467018 (read from OP COMM diagnostic screen)

    Got a 55 plate Astra G with the 1.7 CDTI eng code Z17DTL which has developed an intermittent non start !!

    the following symptoms happen:-
    1). Starts and runs fine no problem then left for a few hours van starts cuts out instantly (i.e no misfire or rough running) go to restart cranks over ok but non start and engine management light on and service lamp stay on.

    Got it AA recovered the guy plugged in his laptop and got ECM Voltage DTC (sorry no more info as he did it a hurry while i was in the van and he was in his recovery truck.comms via bluetooth) Recovered to home. Started first time as he unloaded off recovery truck drove ok up drive !!! Both w/lamps ON eng and service lamps.

    2).Left overnight van started ok only service lamp stayed on ! van did not cut out like previously !! Got a laptop with OP COM on it and pulled the following codes :-

    Engine ECU

    P1190-(B) Unknown DTC not present
    P0481-(4) Fan relay 2 signal Low/Open circuit present
    P0480-(4) Fan relay 1 signal Low/Open circuit present
    P0560-(1) Unknwn DTC not present

    Not a great deal of useful info there ...anybody know what the two Unknwn DTC's are for ???

    Road test to see if i could get fault to come back whilst driving the following w/lamps on the cluster came on
    Seat belt w/lamp ...(drivers belt was on) no one else in van.
    ABS w/lamp
    Handbrake w/lamp
    Tow-bar wlamp ...i do not have a tow-bar elec's fitted !!
    Instrument ILLUMINATION went off.
    Rev-counter and Speedo dropped to zero.

    The symptoms point towards an electrical fault, Would the crank sensor cause this ??, got no DTC's to support this ..not unless the Unknow DTC's are for Crank sensor.

    Carried out a good visual inspection of engine wiring to see if there were any obvious signs of burnt or damage (chafing etc), checked underbonnet relay and fuse box saw no signs of anything.

    If anybody got any thoughts it would be much appreciated

    cheers

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    Maybe the crank sensor, I dont have op com at present so my diagnosis was purley manual for want of a better description.

    Had the same, would start and run then would not re start when hot, this continued intermittantely sometimes the car would be fine for a few days then it would start acting up again, eventually the car would cut out when running this happened twice onthe A12 (not funny) Mr RAC came out and did several tests and said in his opinion it was the crank sensor.

    I have just finished fitting a new sensor today to my 04 1.7 cdti (£65.00 from Vauxhall) and so far it has not cut out even at full operating temp so fingers etc crossed.

    Simple enough to change just in a very awkward place

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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselmonster View Post
    Maybe the crank sensor, I dont have op com at present so my diagnosis was purley manual for want of a better description.

    Had the same, would start and run then would not re start when hot, this continued intermittantely sometimes the car would be fine for a few days then it would start acting up again, eventually the car would cut out when running this happened twice onthe A12 (not funny) Mr RAC came out and did several tests and said in his opinion it was the crank sensor.

    I have just finished fitting a new sensor today to my 04 1.7 cdti (£65.00 from Vauxhall) and so far it has not cut out even at full operating temp so fingers etc crossed.

    Simple enough to change just in a very awkward place
    hi desielmonster,

    thanks for the advice i'm still trying to get my head around the problem, i.e is the warning light fault linked to the intermittent non start or is two faults ?? possible !! the DTC's are a vague to say the least, but if the crank sensor is the problem i guess the Eng ecu cannot translate the intermittent 1volt AC output to a recognisable DTC ?? BUT i do understand that it will cause the intermittent non start. More headscratching

    cheers

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