water injection

[dannysport18]

water injection on the Z20 Engines
Today i was talking about this on the engine
best place we could find was to Drill and Tap the intercooler inlet and spray water inthat way

[LordNikon]

You want it post cooler so it goes into the TB and through to the piston tops, keeps them cooler.

Shouldn't be a problem with the EDS map now, they run rich to keep temps down ;)

[montyfox]

Personally I would weld a boss to mount the nozzle on the meatl boost pipe right after the IC and have always thought that to be the right place but....

have a read through this lot and make your own mind up Where Do I Position My Water Methanol Injection Nozzles (http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/a40/Where-Do-I-Position-My-Water-Methanol-Injection-Nozzles/article_info.html)

[dannysport18]

the guys down at roush said i should look at doing this on car into the intercooler
inlet or outlet

[LordNikon]

Into the cooler ??? Strange.

Not that i will argue with those guys, they do know what they are on about ! lol

[montyfox]

Start a poll , I vote outlet lol.

I always thought placing injector on IC inlet would lead to puddles forming in the IC, not what you want as ideally you want the water mist to turn into a gaseous state (by the water taking heat out of the charge) but going by the link I've posted, i'm probably talking through the hole in my ass!

[dannysport18]

might have to back to them an ask :lol: what to buy an try fit on the car
like this but with one or 2 very small jets on the inlet or exit to FMIC
http://www.lovehorsepower.com/images/WI/Nozzles.jpg

[Max_The_mole]

Into the cooler ??? Strange.

Not that i will argue with those guys, they do know what they are on about ! lol

Water injection works best with hot air so injecting before the intercooler has a greater cooling effect on the air flow.

Injecting into the throttle body cools the pistons BUT this doesn't work on the zlet due to the amount of fuel injected to do the same job.

In an ideal world you would inject water pre intercooler and at the throttle body but have a map written to reduce the excess fuel thats dumped in. The problem with that though is that is becomes dangerous if you run out of water (Unless f course you have a totaly custom map that also takes this into account.

[K3FUS]

I fitted it about 3 years ago and I know Mike Warner worked with ERL to see if a system controller could be made so that it added benefit, but as previously mentioned there is enough fuel to keep things cool and therefore the water injection has a negative effect. Mine simply sprays the intercooler......other than that it was a waste of time and money.

[Max_The_mole]

I fitted it about 3 years ago and I know Mike Warner worked with ERL to see if a system controller could be made so that it added benefit, but as previously mentioned there is enough fuel to keep things cool and therefore the water injection has a negative effect. Mine simply sprays the intercooler......other than that it was a waste of time and money.

I wouldn't say it's a complete waste.

As said above it won't work after the intercoler due to the amount of fuel dumped by the maps This actually causes a reduction in power!)

However there are 2 places where it can be used very effectivley.

1) Just before the turbo! This cools the turbo down and the air BUT has it's downsides (I personally wouldn't do this)

2) Just before the intercooler inlet to cool the hot air going into the intercooler.
This will work V well BUT!.......It is only worth doing if the temprature of air leavig the intercooler is high enough to warrant extra cooling!
Therefore if you have a good intercooler you don't need WI (This is V zle* specific due to the fuel dumped for cooling)
However when you reach 300bhp the currently avaliable intercoolers start to struggle and the inlet temps start to rise.........

[Waveybluewater]

Personally I would weld a boss to mount the nozzle on the meatl boost pipe right after the IC and have always thought that to be the right place but....

have a read through this lot and make your own mind up Where Do I Position My Water Methanol Injection Nozzles (http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/a40/Where-Do-I-Position-My-Water-Methanol-Injection-Nozzles/article_info.html)

Bloody good read that is mate!! I've been looking at this myself to be honest and have thought about 2 nozzles, 1 between AFM and turbo and 1 just before the TB, the above link says that's a pretty good setup so when I do it i think that's how mine wil be, cool the turbo down and then cool the engine down via the 2nd nozzle - can't be bad....

Think I'm also going to have some washer jets to spray water onto the outside of the intercooler too to help disperse the heat that way, ever noticed how the car stays alot cooler when your driving and it's raining pretty heavily??

[Max_The_mole]

then cool the engine down via the 2nd nozzle - can't be bad....



Yes it can be bad due to the amount of fuel being injected for the same purpose.

FYI, completley unrelated......I've just ben checking regals site for P3 boost levels. They shoud be 1.45Br overboost (21pi) and 1.1bar hold (16psi)
Can't see anything to say 3.5 should be any higher.

[Waveybluewater]

Ah got you what are you saying then the air temp is lower (denser) so you can more air in there and so more petrol and I take it that would flood the engine do you think??

I was meaning to ask if there was a temp sensor betweeen the AFM on TB or does it not need one??

P.s was Chris at Regal who said to me no more than 20psi but 20 is fine...

[Max_The_mole]

Ah got you what are you saying then the air temp is lower (denser) so you can more air in there and so more petrol and I take it that would flood the engine do you think??

I was meaning to ask if there was a temp sensor betweeen the AFM on TB or does it not need one??

P.s was Chris at Regal who said to me no more than 20psi but 20 is fine...

The temp sensor is built into the map sensor (Top of the standard intercooler)

I can't remember the exact reason extra petrol + water don't mix.
IIRC it's to do with saturation.

[Waveybluewater]

Got ya, was gonna say is it in the MAP sensor?

Hmm I think I might just look into a better rad and a CO2 purge kit with the jets spraying onto the outside of the intercooler and through onto rads - surely that's gotta work to cool the air down?? or even have a custom pipe made to go round the boost pipe so the co2 has to spray onto and coat the courtenay boost pipe to make it ice cold?? shame you couldn't get an intercooler that has some sort or refridgeration unit built in..

[Max_The_mole]

Got ya, was gonna say is it in the MAP sensor?


Yep!


Hmm I think I might just look into a better rad and a CO2 purge kit with the jets spraying onto the outside of the intercooler and through onto rads - surely that's gotta work to cool the air down?? or even have a custom pipe made to go round the boost pipe so the co2 has to spray onto and coat the courtenay boost pipe to make it ice cold?? shame you couldn't get an intercooler that has some sort or refridgeration unit built in..

C02 would work well. May end up being a bit expensive if you use it too often though!

[hott4u]

How about one of these.....

http://www.pwr.com.au/coolers_atoi.html

[dannysport18]

I will call drew see if he has one for me

[Waveybluewater]

How about one of these.....

http://www.pwr.com.au/coolers_atoi.html


Spot on they must have read my mind lol.. Bet they're bloody pricey though!!

[dannysport18]

the PWR stuff is very good an well priced for what you get
ask an one thats had a look at my water Rad

[Waveybluewater]

Yeah I seen you post a piccy of their stock picture up and it looked a good un'

[dannysport18]

Give LMF a call as they can get the PWR stuff in the uk
thats who i have to get my PWR bits from now unless i get it sent to the house in perth an then post it to england